tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2183388327040813760.post2604544971148482723..comments2024-03-25T12:50:53.554+05:30Comments on Ajivaka Wallacian ஆசிவக வாலேசன்: Lingodhbhava at Mamallapuram Shore templeVarahaMihira Gopuhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08159184223145034793noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2183388327040813760.post-50345057817920973592021-12-28T20:55:01.549+05:302021-12-28T20:55:01.549+05:30That is the quite awesome detail of Lingodhbhava a...That is the quite awesome detail of Lingodhbhava at Mamallapuram Shore temple with equally good pics. I think people are interested <a href="https://www.astrolika.com/temples/mahabalipuram-temple.html" rel="nofollow">you should check this page</a> for religious significance and other detail of this Shore temple.Anjali Kohlihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14587983585776926518noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2183388327040813760.post-36359230063264132012017-06-30T18:23:50.551+05:302017-06-30T18:23:50.551+05:30One sure shot proof of it being filled with water ...One sure shot proof of it being filled with water to brim is a small hole / Vent for water to pass through below Rishabantika. The Varaha would be surely submerged Swamihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06079312386609516195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2183388327040813760.post-65201474274318792002017-06-30T15:43:53.672+05:302017-06-30T15:43:53.672+05:301. Skew of pillar : I think I have answered this i...1. Skew of pillar : I think I have answered this in my response to Muthu's comments.<br /><br />2. Why Rishabhantika inside the shrine? : I have no satisfactory answer, except why not. Only the sculptor can answer this satisfactorily; or perhaps not. The Pallava artist seems to specialize in questions, not answers.<br /><br />3. Size of Varaha: They may have hewn the Varaha to the size of the rock available. Also size, like beauty, is the in eye of the beholder. Consider the size of Krishna and Balarama next to the cattle in Govardhana panel. Did they bother you? Or the elephants and other animals in the Penance panel - will they stand up to a scrutiny of comparative sizes?<br /><br />4. Varaha Pedestal : I think the pedestal shows that the varaha has not and will not reach the bottom of the tank - the level of the bottom of the Lingodhbhava<br /><br />5. The Pallava emblem is a bull, not a Varaha (which was the emblem of the Chalukyas). The other names are birudas of Rajasimha, but they could also double as names for Vishnu.<br />VarahaMihira Gopuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08159184223145034793noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2183388327040813760.post-4821060513287951442017-06-29T13:18:49.217+05:302017-06-29T13:18:49.217+05:301. Somehow i too feel the pillar shrine looks skew...1. Somehow i too feel the pillar shrine looks skewed. Also the size of the three parts look awkward to me thanks to maybe my poor understanding. Also the top part i.e. Vimana is not centerly positioned on top of the cylindrical structure. Anyway lets consider that as a unit. <br /><br />2. Now if it is intended to be a Lingodbava story why do we have a Rishabantika inside the shrine. Why not a lingodbhava? <br /><br />3. The size of the varaha is too big compared to the pillar shrine. Does it match with the poetic inference? Or should we take it as yet another poetic way of telling that inspite of being so big Vishnu found it difficult to reach the feet of Shiva? <br /><br />4. The varaha being carved on the base rock somehow justifies it being there in the cramped space. Without having any space to go around. Well..But why do we have an elaborate pedestal for the Varaha? This being an action scene the depiction should have been one of movement right? <br /><br />5. The varaha pedestal is done with details and has a majestic look. This more likely looks like a proud depiction of the Pallava flag icon Varaha. Also the names written down in the pedestal. Sribhara as said in the article maybe identified with Vishnu. But why Rajasimhah and Ranajaya here?Athyanthakaami vallabhahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15733506861239680085noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2183388327040813760.post-54708591241425674682017-06-29T12:46:39.873+05:302017-06-29T12:46:39.873+05:30The concept is so poetic and very much pallava lik...The concept is so poetic and very much pallava like. But I too have some doubts to be cleared by stalwarts like you. And I take the liberty of putting them down here considering the amount of freedom given to us to be part of any discussion despite the level of knowledge possessed. Athyanthakaami vallabhahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15733506861239680085noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2183388327040813760.post-45570608091122943592017-06-29T12:39:03.162+05:302017-06-29T12:39:03.162+05:30Wow! What an article and what a comment by Muthu! ...Wow! What an article and what a comment by Muthu! Like Muthu I am fortunate to be part of the team and it was lovely listening to your poetic decipherence of the freshwater tank. Athyanthakaami vallabhahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15733506861239680085noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2183388327040813760.post-78195889927765597362017-06-29T12:11:26.696+05:302017-06-29T12:11:26.696+05:30Wow. What an article and wow what a comment from M...Wow. What an article and wow what a comment from Muthu. Like Muthu I am fortunate to have been part of the team. And it was lovely indeed to listen to your poetic decipherence of the freshwater tank sculptures. Athyanthakaami vallabhahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15733506861239680085noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2183388327040813760.post-30565077449397392882017-06-29T07:17:55.585+05:302017-06-29T07:17:55.585+05:30Annae, thanks for the speedy and lengthy response....Annae, thanks for the speedy and lengthy response. INSPIRING.<br /><br />Points 1&3 helps me to understand how you see the whole and me the parts alone.<br /><br />Point 2, I am unable to explain why it looks skewed to me, now this is difficult for anybody to respond to my skewed perception :-) . However this on subsequent visits I am sure I would be able to engage better, probably without my viparyayam and vikalpam :-).<br /><br />Point 4(a&b) are enlightening.<br /><br />Last point on Stylization, despite my disclaimers I am undone by your simple statement. If I push myself I would say i am referring to the features, sharpness of edges, thickness etc. But normally I do not suffer so much of vagueness while making a point therefore I wish to resume discussion on this point later when we visit there.<br /><br />Before I conclude, I say it again, Lingodhbhava interpretation is very INTERESTING and NOVEL. It surely enhanced my experience when I was there.muthuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17803850702334281687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2183388327040813760.post-83299553185077967662017-06-28T23:45:10.012+05:302017-06-28T23:45:10.012+05:30Muthu, thanks for the compliments and the comments...Muthu, thanks for the compliments and the comments, all of which are quite insightful. Perhaps they are all correct. But let me offer counterpoints.<br /><br />1. Different color tones. In this, the pillar temple resembles the Shore temples, which have upapeetham and segments of adhishtana made from granite mother rock but walls and vimana of laterite. I say this based merely on amateur observation. A geologist must confirm or deny whether the component rock of the upper parts of the Shore Temple and the upper part of the pillar temple are made from similar rock material.<br /><br />2. a. If the proportion is skewed how can the assembly be brilliant? It would look terrible. There are examples of bad assembly all over the shore temple, mainly of the mandapam walls.<br /><br />b. I feel that the Pallava sculptor fit the structural components of a different material on to the fixed adishtana of the base material brilliantly. And the ASI has put the pieces back together very well : as well as they have put together the broken pieces of the adjacent Varaha<br /><br />3. Seated lion is monolithic because they had enough material to work with. Pillared temple is not monolithic perhaps because they had just enough to sculpt the adishtanam. I think the Pallava sthapathi has used the uneven mother rock brilliantly and with great imagination. The non-aligned twin temples are the most obvious example. This is another.<br /><br />4. Gap between Varaha and wall. Now allow me be more subjective, but cite a couple of examples. <br /><br />a. Artistically sensible and sensitive the Pallavas were, but not uniformly so. The lions on the southern end of the Krishna mandapam and the faces of the cattle leave something to be desired, compared to the rest of their work. A number of ganas in the ganavaris of several monuments are of questionable quality. The variation between between the sculptures of the upper and lower floors of the Dharmaraja ratha is obvious. The quality of the sculptures inside the nasis of the shore temples also tell their own tale. To leave us so many unfinished monuments is perhaps most insensitive of them - but perhaps they had sensible reasons, which we cannot discern!<br /><br />b. While this is the case, I think the Varaha is there by design. The Pallava silpi took advantage of his medium, and let his patron's imagination license to work a little. So the bull in the Five rathas is out of place. The right extreme portion of Arjuna's Penance curves with the rock, out of sight. The rishi and his disciples there are carved in full relief, in a panel where all other figures are not. One woodcutter seems to have wandered off, like Daedelaus, a little close to Surya. This is more ambitious than either Arjuna or Bhageeratha. <br />The bull on the upper right of the Govardhana panel is almost in the round, and a little outside the umbra of the mountain lifted by Krishna. The lowest part of the left leg another bull in the middle this panel alone seems to be in the round, with a small gap from the mother rock. <br /><br />All of these indicate ambitious sculptors, who worked with the material they found, and used whatever imagination they had. And rarely shied away from a challenge. I lay these arguments in favor of the location of the Varaha. They merely sculpted it where they could. I dont think circumambulating the Varaha was anywhere on their minds.<br /><br />4. Stylization - I dont know what you mean.<br />VarahaMihira Gopuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08159184223145034793noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2183388327040813760.post-7045071345574362092017-06-28T21:43:16.050+05:302017-06-28T21:43:16.050+05:30Annae, I am one of the fortunate few to be there w...Annae, I am one of the fortunate few to be there when you explained this right there at the temple premises. It was both interesting and novel interpretation. <br /><br />However IMHO (purely based on instincts), I wish to share the following reservations with you <br /><br />The adhistanam, the shrine and the vimanam all are in 3 different COLOUR TONES suggesting me they are from 3 different pieces.<br /><br />Also the PROPORTION of the 3 components looks skewed and gives me a feel that someone has assembled different components brilliantly.<br /><br />Furthermore the contrasting seated lion shrine you mention is a monolithic unlike this. <br /><br />The gap between the Varaha and the pond wall is another point to ponder, would the artistically sensitive and sensible Pallavas carve a rounded sculpture and restrict us from going around it?.<br /><br />Last but not least the 3 components don't share the same STYLIZATION (I am afraid to say this therefore kept this as a last point, because my best connections to sculptures are through you and other TH acaryas; I don't have the necessary knowledge to comment, but still did it out of ஒரு முரட்டு தைரியம்)<br /><br />muthuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17803850702334281687noreply@blogger.com